http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/ Sat, 19 May 2012 20:16:25 +0000 MyBB http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1186 Fri, 11 May 2012 03:39:37 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1186
I believe that George Hodel was the perp.

I thought it was committed in the Franklin House.

I just could not agree that it was committed in the bathroom - it looks impossible to me - I have a hard time washing my dog in a bathub and I only spend 5 minutes on that. I read everything I could about the Franklin House.

So I looked at the architectureal plans on line, photos etc for other possiblities. Looked at the surrealist art before the murder and after the murder.

I decided that he must have killed her on the printing press - but the printing presses in the surrealist art works didn't look "workable" so I kept this theory open and kept looking.

I read that George Hodel kept the printing press in the basement at the Franklin house.

Then I saw an engraving of a printing press on Steve Hodel's website that he said looked similar to his father's. It looks amazingly like an examination table - You know, "please put your feet up in the stirups".

Guests cannot see images in posts.

I am surprized Steve Hodel didn't think of this but maybe men don't see these things very often. Of couse, as a physician, I am sure his father notice the similarity.

If Elizabeth Short was murdered on that printing press it would explain several things
1. the tilted pelvis - her size vs the press would mean her pevic area would have been bent.
2. the ligature marks to the wrists and ankles
3. the ligature marks to the neck-to keep her from lifting her torso off the press.
4. the strange stains to the bottom of her feet - I think this was printers ink off the printing press. I think they couldn't remove it because it got into the calluses of her feet and just wouldn't come off.
5. The severe scrubbing they gave her. To remove printers ink, blood ect to leave her with a very white complexion for the "look" they were going for

Guests cannot see images in posts.

Notice the stains- I believe these are ink stains from the printing press - I believe they could not remove them because the ink got down into the calluses of her feet where it just wouldn't come out.

Guests cannot see images in posts.


I got a copy of an autopsy photo of Elizabeth Short taken from the left side. I put together a diagram of the angle of the body if it hadn't been cut in half and compared it to the Potter press- it fits amazingly well.

From my calculations, her head might have been partially hung over the edge of the press workspace.

What is interesting also is that the Potter press engraving on Steve Hodel's site would allow a person to be tied to the press at their neck and head from below - through open space at the end of the workspace. They would have been able to completely immobilize Elizabeth Short.


I made a page at wordpress if you want to look at the pictures.
Guests cannot see links in posts.

I haven't seen photos of her buttocks area - but if someone can refer me to one I would like to know if there is evidence that would corroborate my finding.

Printing presses like this weigh between 900 and 2000 pounds. It was on a dirt floor in the basement but obviously was being used as a printing press so it was stable enough not to fall over on someone-you can afford to have a 900-2000 piece of cast iron fall over. Who is going to pick it up. It might have been on a concrete pad. That I don't know.

Strapping a 115-130 lb girl on top would not have been an issue - especially being they strapped her down so hard to keep her from moving around.

People have 5-6 liters of blood. That is 2-3 (2) liter Coke bottles. A dirt floor could easily soak up the fluid. They could have scrapped it up with shovels and thrown it in the trash or the incinerator. They could have buried it. I just don't see that part being a problem for them. They could have thrown their bloody clothes in the incinerator, as well.]]>
I believe that George Hodel was the perp.

I thought it was committed in the Franklin House.

I just could not agree that it was committed in the bathroom - it looks impossible to me - I have a hard time washing my dog in a bathub and I only spend 5 minutes on that. I read everything I could about the Franklin House.

So I looked at the architectureal plans on line, photos etc for other possiblities. Looked at the surrealist art before the murder and after the murder.

I decided that he must have killed her on the printing press - but the printing presses in the surrealist art works didn't look "workable" so I kept this theory open and kept looking.

I read that George Hodel kept the printing press in the basement at the Franklin house.

Then I saw an engraving of a printing press on Steve Hodel's website that he said looked similar to his father's. It looks amazingly like an examination table - You know, "please put your feet up in the stirups".

Guests cannot see images in posts.

I am surprized Steve Hodel didn't think of this but maybe men don't see these things very often. Of couse, as a physician, I am sure his father notice the similarity.

If Elizabeth Short was murdered on that printing press it would explain several things
1. the tilted pelvis - her size vs the press would mean her pevic area would have been bent.
2. the ligature marks to the wrists and ankles
3. the ligature marks to the neck-to keep her from lifting her torso off the press.
4. the strange stains to the bottom of her feet - I think this was printers ink off the printing press. I think they couldn't remove it because it got into the calluses of her feet and just wouldn't come off.
5. The severe scrubbing they gave her. To remove printers ink, blood ect to leave her with a very white complexion for the "look" they were going for

Guests cannot see images in posts.

Notice the stains- I believe these are ink stains from the printing press - I believe they could not remove them because the ink got down into the calluses of her feet where it just wouldn't come out.

Guests cannot see images in posts.


I got a copy of an autopsy photo of Elizabeth Short taken from the left side. I put together a diagram of the angle of the body if it hadn't been cut in half and compared it to the Potter press- it fits amazingly well.

From my calculations, her head might have been partially hung over the edge of the press workspace.

What is interesting also is that the Potter press engraving on Steve Hodel's site would allow a person to be tied to the press at their neck and head from below - through open space at the end of the workspace. They would have been able to completely immobilize Elizabeth Short.


I made a page at wordpress if you want to look at the pictures.
Guests cannot see links in posts.

I haven't seen photos of her buttocks area - but if someone can refer me to one I would like to know if there is evidence that would corroborate my finding.

Printing presses like this weigh between 900 and 2000 pounds. It was on a dirt floor in the basement but obviously was being used as a printing press so it was stable enough not to fall over on someone-you can afford to have a 900-2000 piece of cast iron fall over. Who is going to pick it up. It might have been on a concrete pad. That I don't know.

Strapping a 115-130 lb girl on top would not have been an issue - especially being they strapped her down so hard to keep her from moving around.

People have 5-6 liters of blood. That is 2-3 (2) liter Coke bottles. A dirt floor could easily soak up the fluid. They could have scrapped it up with shovels and thrown it in the trash or the incinerator. They could have buried it. I just don't see that part being a problem for them. They could have thrown their bloody clothes in the incinerator, as well.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1185 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:22:03 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1185 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1184 Thu, 26 Apr 2012 01:24:05 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1184
1. Has anyone read the Guests cannot see links in posts.? The product page says "Kindle edition includes exclusive new photos." I already own the print edition (Amok Oct 2003 edition fourth printing). Are the extra photos worthwhile? My experience has been that Kindle editions don't always come with the same illustrations as the corresponding print editions, and when they do, they aren't always scanned at a good resolution. Can anyone who has the Kindle edition of "Severed" comment on this?

2. I'm reading "Severed" and I can't find out from the book how the victim was first identified as Elizabeth short. Chapter 11 details the discovery and autopsy of the victim, who is still referred to as Jane Doe by the police. Then early in Chapter 12, the author writes, "At the Examiner it became quickly known that Elizabeth Short was a glamour gal with a shape that would put bathing beauties to shame." So how does the Examiner find out the victim is Short at that point? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any help.]]>
1. Has anyone read the Guests cannot see links in posts.? The product page says "Kindle edition includes exclusive new photos." I already own the print edition (Amok Oct 2003 edition fourth printing). Are the extra photos worthwhile? My experience has been that Kindle editions don't always come with the same illustrations as the corresponding print editions, and when they do, they aren't always scanned at a good resolution. Can anyone who has the Kindle edition of "Severed" comment on this?

2. I'm reading "Severed" and I can't find out from the book how the victim was first identified as Elizabeth short. Chapter 11 details the discovery and autopsy of the victim, who is still referred to as Jane Doe by the police. Then early in Chapter 12, the author writes, "At the Examiner it became quickly known that Elizabeth Short was a glamour gal with a shape that would put bathing beauties to shame." So how does the Examiner find out the victim is Short at that point? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any help.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1183 Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:33:22 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1183 Guests cannot see images in posts.

Cheers

Pat]]> Guests cannot see images in posts.

Cheers

Pat]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1182 Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:27:36 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1182 1929 - 2012
Rest in peace

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Rest in peace

  clark-at-podium-320_thumb.jpg (Size: 47.23 KB / Downloads: 6) ]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1178 Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:33:29 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1178
__________

the perp, i was thinking about how dumb it was for him to put the purse and the shoes on the incinerator like he did, you know, in back of the cafe . i don't think that it was part of the teasing he did , like with the address book, sending it to the newspapers, nope, he was simply disposing of the purse and shoes. yet, in another way, he wanted to maybe show he was still in town, but it is the neatness in him. that fits with what gilmore says jack smith said about putting the leg , i think it was, just so, or putting the body in place a certain way, something like that, i noticed that his own sense of order, and his own idea of neatness, beth was a neat type, she would have appealed to the perp. that second picture isn't the one i wanted to attach but whatever... see how weird that is though? like superimposed hazy people on top of each other , sort of , faces or whatever, but that one could look like an optical illusion could be the reason the first one with the horse, and yet when i change the color, or temperatures, other people images seem to appear. whatever it is , i have no idea. hey, that rhymed. anyhow, there you are with at least the one i spoke about with the horse.

__________

i hope it attaches this is from outside the empty lobby i am taking the picture from outside the glass window i mean , i took the picture. the date is wrong. you know how i am with electronics by now, probably

__________

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__________

the perp, i was thinking about how dumb it was for him to put the purse and the shoes on the incinerator like he did, you know, in back of the cafe . i don't think that it was part of the teasing he did , like with the address book, sending it to the newspapers, nope, he was simply disposing of the purse and shoes. yet, in another way, he wanted to maybe show he was still in town, but it is the neatness in him. that fits with what gilmore says jack smith said about putting the leg , i think it was, just so, or putting the body in place a certain way, something like that, i noticed that his own sense of order, and his own idea of neatness, beth was a neat type, she would have appealed to the perp. that second picture isn't the one i wanted to attach but whatever... see how weird that is though? like superimposed hazy people on top of each other , sort of , faces or whatever, but that one could look like an optical illusion could be the reason the first one with the horse, and yet when i change the color, or temperatures, other people images seem to appear. whatever it is , i have no idea. hey, that rhymed. anyhow, there you are with at least the one i spoke about with the horse.

__________

i hope it attaches this is from outside the empty lobby i am taking the picture from outside the glass window i mean , i took the picture. the date is wrong. you know how i am with electronics by now, probably

__________

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The girl's name was Colleen Marsh, or Margo Wallis. She was 23 in 1946 and was arrested at the Ambassador Hotel on May 25, 1946 for prostitution. She was arrested again on December 6, 1946 for "resorting."

Mr. Sanford said she looked very close in appearance to a photograph of Elizabeth Short. Mrs. Sanford said she looked similar but that Elizabeth Short's face was thinner.

Mr. Sanford went to his room in early 1946 and said that Richard Short was nervous and had a long sharp dagger under his bed. Richard Short was a suspect in the murder of Elizabeth Short, but was eliminated eventually. In the end, there was no connection between Richard Short and Colleen Marsh and Elizabeth Short. Still, the confusion with "the other Beth Short" continues.]]>
The girl's name was Colleen Marsh, or Margo Wallis. She was 23 in 1946 and was arrested at the Ambassador Hotel on May 25, 1946 for prostitution. She was arrested again on December 6, 1946 for "resorting."

Mr. Sanford said she looked very close in appearance to a photograph of Elizabeth Short. Mrs. Sanford said she looked similar but that Elizabeth Short's face was thinner.

Mr. Sanford went to his room in early 1946 and said that Richard Short was nervous and had a long sharp dagger under his bed. Richard Short was a suspect in the murder of Elizabeth Short, but was eliminated eventually. In the end, there was no connection between Richard Short and Colleen Marsh and Elizabeth Short. Still, the confusion with "the other Beth Short" continues.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1171 Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:40:51 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1171
You can see The Crown Grill first at 5:27 and then again at 5:35 (then you also see the Hotel Bristol next door, then the Golden Gopher, both still there today).

Here's the video:

Guests cannot see links in posts.

And here is the link to Larry's post:

Guests cannot see links in posts.

You can also see the Biltmore on the video! It's really, really interesting to see at the storefronts, theatres, lights, etc., as well as all the people - you see several servicemen.

The 1947project did a nice write up of the video, pointing out that it is shot heading South on Olive, then turning onto 8th, which was very likely Beth's final route.

Guests cannot see links in posts.]]>
You can see The Crown Grill first at 5:27 and then again at 5:35 (then you also see the Hotel Bristol next door, then the Golden Gopher, both still there today).

Here's the video:

Guests cannot see links in posts.

And here is the link to Larry's post:

Guests cannot see links in posts.

You can also see the Biltmore on the video! It's really, really interesting to see at the storefronts, theatres, lights, etc., as well as all the people - you see several servicemen.

The 1947project did a nice write up of the video, pointing out that it is shot heading South on Olive, then turning onto 8th, which was very likely Beth's final route.

Guests cannot see links in posts.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1170 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:49:48 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1170

The new Hodel book is coming!]]>

The new Hodel book is coming!]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1168 Sat, 10 Mar 2012 07:50:46 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1168
Guests cannot see links in posts.

Steve Hodel believed in his innocence and has posted comments on his website:

Guests cannot see links in posts.]]>
Guests cannot see links in posts.

Steve Hodel believed in his innocence and has posted comments on his website:

Guests cannot see links in posts.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1167 Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:36:29 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1167 Guests cannot see links in posts.]]> Guests cannot see links in posts.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1166 Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:23:25 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1166
Guests cannot see images in posts.]]>
Guests cannot see images in posts.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1165 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 02:30:54 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1165 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1164 Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:22:30 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1164 Guests cannot see images in posts.I visited the area last weekend for a WW2 event. While I was up there, I visited the Santa Barbara police station and the Old Greyhound bus station.

HISTORICAL NOTE: Beth was arrested there and the famous picture of her was taken then. She also used the vintage decor bus station which remains operating since 1940 and is set to close later this year.

CURIOUSITY: There are also three old theatres; the Arlington,the Metro 4 theatre and the Granada which mirror the theatres of Old Hollywood and
San Diego. I wonder if she ever visited Joe's Cafe, a vintage cafe which was a hot spot during the 40's.Guests cannot see images in posts.

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  SB-Police-Staion.jpg (Size: 51.58 KB / Downloads: 6) ]]> Guests cannot see images in posts.I visited the area last weekend for a WW2 event. While I was up there, I visited the Santa Barbara police station and the Old Greyhound bus station.

HISTORICAL NOTE: Beth was arrested there and the famous picture of her was taken then. She also used the vintage decor bus station which remains operating since 1940 and is set to close later this year.

CURIOUSITY: There are also three old theatres; the Arlington,the Metro 4 theatre and the Granada which mirror the theatres of Old Hollywood and
San Diego. I wonder if she ever visited Joe's Cafe, a vintage cafe which was a hot spot during the 40's.Guests cannot see images in posts.

  Black_Dahlia_Mugshot.jpg (Size: 21.25 KB / Downloads: 14)

  greyhound.jpg (Size: 30.92 KB / Downloads: 6)

  SB-Police-Staion.jpg (Size: 51.58 KB / Downloads: 6) ]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1163 Wed, 22 Feb 2012 20:07:24 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1163 Guests cannot see images in posts.What was Elizabeth doing on Marco Island? I know her mother sent her to Miami Beach when she was a teenager, but Marco is over a hundred miles due west of Miami.

The Marco Lodge, shown in the photo, still exists, although it moved from it's original location long ago.

  ES 32.jpg (Size: 452.66 KB / Downloads: 57) ]]> Guests cannot see images in posts.What was Elizabeth doing on Marco Island? I know her mother sent her to Miami Beach when she was a teenager, but Marco is over a hundred miles due west of Miami.

The Marco Lodge, shown in the photo, still exists, although it moved from it's original location long ago.

  ES 32.jpg (Size: 452.66 KB / Downloads: 57) ]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1162 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:44:19 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1162



FRAGMENTS OF POSTWAR LOS ANGELES: THE BLACK DAHLIA IN FACT AND FICTION*T Hamm - Antipode, 1996 - Wiley Online Library
... them, and wives got back at their husbands by “turning them in.” A woman reading the newspaper
accounts in a San Diego cafe suddenly sprang to her feet and declared “I've got to confess.” The
subtitle of a Life feature story told how the ”Black Dahlia murder case has ...]]>



FRAGMENTS OF POSTWAR LOS ANGELES: THE BLACK DAHLIA IN FACT AND FICTION*T Hamm - Antipode, 1996 - Wiley Online Library
... them, and wives got back at their husbands by “turning them in.” A woman reading the newspaper
accounts in a San Diego cafe suddenly sprang to her feet and declared “I've got to confess.” The
subtitle of a Life feature story told how the ”Black Dahlia murder case has ...]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1161 Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:13:25 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1161
The Los Angeles Police Historical Society Museum, which houses many crime displays, until now, has made no mention of the unsolved Black Dahlia murder. The museum "will open a limited run exhibition about the Elizabeth Short investigation" in Highland Park. No mention has been made concerning what will be shown and it's possible that the same material displayed in Las Vegas will be housed at the museum. There may be additional items included, but this is not certain.

The museum is quite a place, with much L. A. crime memorabilia on view, including the getaway car used in the North Hollywood shootout at the Bank of America.

Incidentally, the museum is the former Highland Park Police Station, where Leslie Dillon was held for questioning by Harry Hansen and Finis Brown.

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The Los Angeles Police Historical Society Museum, which houses many crime displays, until now, has made no mention of the unsolved Black Dahlia murder. The museum "will open a limited run exhibition about the Elizabeth Short investigation" in Highland Park. No mention has been made concerning what will be shown and it's possible that the same material displayed in Las Vegas will be housed at the museum. There may be additional items included, but this is not certain.

The museum is quite a place, with much L. A. crime memorabilia on view, including the getaway car used in the North Hollywood shootout at the Bank of America.

Incidentally, the museum is the former Highland Park Police Station, where Leslie Dillon was held for questioning by Harry Hansen and Finis Brown.

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  Image.jpg (Size: 227.23 KB / Downloads: 39) ]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1160 Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:40:14 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1160 Guests cannot see images in posts.

Most of you will remember the above photo from one of my posts quite some time ago. It's a screen capture from the KTTV news special featuring Tony Valdez. It is my hunch that these are the same three people who were with Beth on the beach in Miami. I think the girl is Marge Dyer, the dark-haired guy is the chap referred to as "Eddie" on the main BDiH site and the blonde guy appears to be the one cropped out of the pic of Beth with this "Eddie" on the beach.

Guests cannot see images in posts.

Guests cannot see images in posts.

Guests cannot see images in posts.]]> Guests cannot see images in posts.

Most of you will remember the above photo from one of my posts quite some time ago. It's a screen capture from the KTTV news special featuring Tony Valdez. It is my hunch that these are the same three people who were with Beth on the beach in Miami. I think the girl is Marge Dyer, the dark-haired guy is the chap referred to as "Eddie" on the main BDiH site and the blonde guy appears to be the one cropped out of the pic of Beth with this "Eddie" on the beach.

Guests cannot see images in posts.

Guests cannot see images in posts.

Guests cannot see images in posts.]]> http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1159 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 18:33:32 +0000 http://forum.theblackdahliainhollywood.com/showthread.php?tid=1159
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